Personally I think it’s a great movie, but I can see how it might be challenging to understand, but really, is it that hard to just say you don’t understand it and therefore can’t appreciate it? So you say that Ritchie’s lost it instead. Yeah and if you trip over a rock it’s the rock’s fault and if you fail at math, then math is just stupid. Sad to see how hostile people get when they have to face their own lack of intelligence.

anyways, fuck the critics - watch the movie for yourself and if you like it, great. if not, who cares?
I loved it. My favorite movies are the ones that leave me confused in the end.

Favorite scene - Liotta on the floor in the restaraunt.

Gotta watch it again and try to wrap my brain around it… and one last thing - how can anyone on this damn site dare to say that there’s “no deeper meaning” or “Substance” or whatever the fuck they all said. have you sat down with the writer/director and had an in depth conversation about all the metaphors and such in the movie?

1. Zack and Avi are really the two inmates that Green served next to. They really materially exist, why? they really interact with the other ‘real’ material characters. They conned their way out of prison. GR is not dumb enough to make anything sloppy like an intended imaginary character interacting with a real one. His attention to detail is too high.

2. Mr. Gold (the one with the big dining room who has a ‘real’ presence in the world, not the metaphor of the Ego in the mind) is a creation of Zack and Avi. He is, by their creation, both immaterial though very real and a metaphor. Mr. Gold the metaphor (and real enemy within) is ego, greed, anger, lust, or ‘the voice’ that pushes you to them. Zach and Avi hired Lily Walker, who bears a striking physical resemblance to a queen on a chessboard.

3. Zach and Avi perpetrate the entire plot to save Green, who they befriended in prison two years after he is released. As Green said he would die for them, apparently it was mutual dedication since they concocted this massive plot to save Green from himself, they did not want green to become Macha. In freeing Green from Macha’s fate, they also free Green from Macha himself by leading Macha to destroy himself in a war with a rival organization. (I don’t think they were Yakuza, the language didnt sound like Japanese (I live in Japan at the moment), more like Thai or Chinese.)

Everything else has been covered, and I did make a few extrapolated assumptions, but the entire film makes sense from this perspective, no holes.

This movie was brilliant, in my opinion. In the last 3 days I have started trying to become more aware of what is my ego reacting and what is my true nature. No movie has ever done something like that for me. I intend to try and stay on that path.

Sorter is my favorite character in any recent film I have seen. I love the idea of a studdering geek being a perfect shot. He did not have to draw the line somewhere and gain redemption, I still would have liked that character. (He never shoots an ‘innocent’ person that I saw, so redemption necessary in my opinion.)

The film was nothing like “Snatch” or “Lock, Stock…”, two of my other favorite films. I will definitely buy this DVD.

The only part of the film I absolutely did NOT like was the animated segments. All 3 times I watched it removed me from the movie instantly. (A Scanner Darkly used it brilliantly, this… not so much)

As a side note, I had the extra features on the DVD to help me along. There are a lot of deleted scenes that were cut for being too overt, and watching them I agree. I think had I seen it in the theater, I would have been pissed off until I had the chance to rent it and analize it. I still don’t think it would have prompted me to jump online and flame others for their opinions, however.

Its all of the above The chess game, good versed evil a con movie. It’s “5 films in one”

The plot

Avi is invented by Jake and does not exist, though within the fantasy of Jake’s mind (in prison) other characters know of his existence. The Eddies, his bother neice, Liotta, Lord John do exist in the real world and are incorperated into this ” day dream”. Jake is still in prison and has played out a fantasy to gain revenge. During this fantasy he wins and Liotta shoots himself.

mr. ritchie tried to teach you how to grasp and understand, again,

to those who have decided their own fate, i welcome you,

I will keep on posting until something happens.

I posted here something that I did find after detective work of 2hrs.
It was not posted so is there someone dumbass who is being moderator and not letting the truth come out??!!!
So check with the “Mountains of the Moon”
originla script from the book made by Sir Richard Francis Burton. Scandals in the life of Richard Burton:Allegations of homosexuality dogged Burton throughout most of his life.

The film Mountains of the Moon (1990) (starring Scottish actor Iain Glen as Speke) related the story of the Burton-Speke controversy. The film hints at a sexual intimacy between Burton and Speke. It also vaguely portrays Speke as a closeted homosexual. This was based on the William Harrison novel Burton and Speke.

Is this too real shit to publish???

“Speke is attacked by beetles that crawl into his ear and nearly drive him mad. Burton’s legs swell up and need to be lanced, which Burton does himself when Speke becomes fainthearted.

Then, suddenly, while Burton is in a delirium of fever and being nursed by Speke, the younger man, carried away by his feelings, covers Burton’s face with lover’s kisses.”

Did you see how ray liotta doubble eye peeked in beginning with one guy sitting at his home in chear and he was in drobe. I tought it was the weed but it seems that my imagination as well.
subliminal message. then i realised it’s everything buddhist or anything that we have two sides but because of cultural and moralistic expectations operate only with one.

Only that nature of human mind is dualist that can feel and have bad feelings -mentioned with the sharpist killer- so it’s ok to to love any man and woman equally not necessary sexually…shit man..spent 2 hours just resting my case and going happily sleep next to my girlfriend:)

What a con…

I loved Snatch and Lock Stock. This one however, is a shot in the dark.

The plot is this: Some killing, 50 seconds of cartoon(??), two or three pairs of tits combined with pretentious music and recaps of what was said earlier in the movie. The recaps are not a sum-up, they are just empty phrases about opponents and so on.

I agree with the fact that Guy Ritchie took a chance and tried something different for once, just a shame it took a turn for the worse. I have never been so disappointed and bored by a movie. I’m going back to the videostore to get a full refund, and then some.

At first I tried not to think about it but I did so I kept on coming up what the story was about or the meaning before it ended and of course I came across all the things the movie was indeed about.

The movie is about the con. He is conning the big guy (Ray Liotta) to do all the work and he gets all his money or at least embarrass him or seek revenge since he killed his brother’s wife. It doesn’t work though in the end and he just gives up and gets his Fatherless (I am guessing. They don’t say) niece back from the big boss. A lot of other stuff happens though that it doesn’t ever directly talk about.

That is basically what the main movie is about which isn’t complicated at all but it has many elements in it and when you see them if you don’t recognize them they are defiantly hard to miss or be confused because of all the symbolism.

Guy Ritchie isn’t spoon feeding us the story, or what he means by it. He wants us to form our own opinion so that his creative work can have all kinds of meanings. Sometimes people do this subconsciously (Lord of the Rings) or intentionally (Revolver) in there work of art. Or they can add it and hope it doesn’t look intended. For example, The Ents from Lord of the rings, a lot of people like them because they represent the environment and they take on Sarumon who is the industrialization of the world. This could be intended for us derive this meaning or it could have just been added to the story. It may also just be some tree looking people taking on people who kill there fellow people. Or it maybe just there for us to derive whatever meaning we want to from it.

So that in mind I will continue what I think is “the chess game within a chess game within a chess game” which what Guy Ritchie said about the movie. The first game is the basic story. But we must evolve our game to a second level. Obviously our friend Jake seems to having some troubles with his mind and it looks like he is going crazy. The two guy’s in prison are his subconscious self manifesting them selves into reality making him do good since he was bad before, and getting rid of the evil one inside his head.

The evidence

7 Years locked up in solitary confinement with 2 cons. We don’t know if this is true or not because we don’t see them or have anyone to confirm. But we do know they supposedly just walked out of jail one day and were gone but they promised they would take Jake.
The scene in the elevator, when he gets his evil self out of his head by just ignoring him and not letting him control his ideas anymore.
The Flash back when he is doing all his charity work there is no one there just him dropping off the money.

Meaning this could mean that he has schizophrenia and is dealing with it. Which is kind of funny because he throws Ray Liotta for a right spin too as he is caught up in Jakes inner turmoil.

But if we look deeper we can see other meanings. If or example instead of saying that the 2 in prison were just in his head, because there is no way to confirm they are real which probably means there not. They could also be angles sent to help him evolve his game to the final level. And that he isn’t dealing with his own evil self inside (elevator scene) but in fact he is dealing with the devil which is hiding inside him. Which gives light to the entire idea is that he movie is very well done Good vs Evil (God Vs Devil) Movie. We also see Jake first deal with the devil then we see it on a much larger scale with Ray.

The Evidence
Both his inmates escape just one day and never are heard of again until Jake realizes who they are. So they could be viewed as angels also apposed to just people in his mind.

He is going to die in 3 days if he doesn’t change his ways. But after 3 days of changing and become good he is miraculously cured.

The devil is inside Jake because the as the bible says “the greatest trick he ever pulled was making you believe he didn’t exist” But in fact he is doing it by making you think he is in fact you. At one point was almost shown in the elevator with Jake. But Jake decided to stop listening to him because he realized that he thought he was doing his own thing with his life and in control while in fact he was letting the devil control him. Until he decided to evolve himself, he was just doing the same thing over and over again almost like a Revolving door.

I believe these are the 3 games which are played in the game to keep the viewer guessing. Also Guy Ritchie ties in a lot of symbolism into the story which leads to all kinds of different conclusions because we are made to think in the movie because nothing is completely explained. Which leads us to take on our own ideas to what things mean, which I think is what Guy Ritchie is trying to do.

Quotes from Jake
“There is something about yourself that you don’t know. Something that you will deny even exists, until it’s too late to do anything about it. It’s the only reason you get up in the morning. The only reason you suffer the shitty puss, the blood, the sweat and the tears. This is because you want people to know how good, attractive, generous, funny, wild and clever you really are. Fear or revere me, but please, think I’m special. We share an addiction. We’re approval junkies. We’re all in it for the slap on the back and the gold watch. The hip-hip-hoo-fuckin’ rah. Look at the clever boy with the badge, polishing his trophy. Shine on you crazy diamond, because we’re just monkeys wrapped in suits, begging for the approval of others”

Oh, I know you’re still there… cause I can feel you dying. I can hear you tapping me… for a little nutrition. Now who’s looking for a fix? It gets a little tight in here, do you? Well, you’re not wrong… cause the walls are moving in. No food here. Not today, sunshine. My eyes are open and the restaurant’s closed. Jog on. Slide off. Find someone else to fill your pipe. Someone, who won’t see you coming… or know, when you’re there.

Other Ideas are the movie itself being a con movie may in fact be trying to con you into thinking more than you need to.

It’s about not letting the internal enemy, the real enemy, have his way because the more he does the stronger he becomes. The film’s about the devastating results that can manifest from the internal enemy being unbridled and allowed to unleash chaos.
Guy Ritchie

Jake Green isn’t just Jake Green. Jake represents all of us. The colour green is the central column of the spectrum and the name Jake has all sorts of numerical values. All things come back to him within the film’s world of cons and games.
Guy Ritchie

Jake’s on a journey of how to play the game. He’s very good at playing games and he’s done very well out of playing by a certain formula but he didn’t realize how big and consistent that formula is. He only saw the formula in its microscopic form and didn’t realize that it could be macroscopic.
Guy Ritchie

So it’s based on the formula that you can only get smarter by playing a smarter opponent. Who is the ultimate opponent? Yourself.
Guy Ritchie

We can all be conned but at what point do we realize that we’re being conned and to what point do we allow ourselves to be conned?
Guy Ritchie